V8 Super Loop Out Questions

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Yankee495
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V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Hello,

When using the loop out connector on a V8 Super does the second receiver need to have the LNB power turned off?
I'm using a V7 connected to the loop out of a V8 Super. The V8 controls the LNB and the V7 can only get the polarity the V8 selects. I know that is normal.

But if the V8 is turned off is it possible to control the dish with the V7?
I have all LNB power on the V7 turned off right now and need to know if it is OK to have the V7 LNB power on while the V8 is turned on?

Thank you.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Yankee495 wrote:Hello,

When using the loop out connector on a V8 Super does the second receiver need to have the LNB power turned off?
I'm using a V7 connected to the loop out of a V8 Super. The V8 controls the LNB and the V7 can only get the polarity the V8 selects. I know that is normal.

But if the V8 is turned off is it possible to control the dish with the V7?
I have all LNB power on the V7 turned off right now and need to know if it is OK to have the V7 LNB power on while the V8 is turned on?

Thank you.
Yes it is ok to power on the V7 while the V8 is off, but you run the risk of forgetting to power it off again and clashing with the V8.
A better method is to supply both the V8 and V7 through a splitter.
Splitters have diodes in them that stop clashes. The unit, V7 or V8, that has Horizontal will win in any battle for the LNB's.
No harm will come to your units with a splitter. If the V8 is watching V and the V7 turns on H the V8 will lose signal.
Splitters are not so good with DiSEqC switching as both units will keep changing the switches.
With a single sat a splitter is best.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

Yankee495
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Thank you Owen.

I'm more worried about hurting the V8 with power from the V7. My wife could turn on the V8 at any time and I just want to know if the V8 is built to block power from a receiver connected to the loop out. Some receivers allow the power to pass when they're turned off and the slave receiver (V7) can control the dish. In the old days they used DC blockers to connect a receiver to the loop out but today I think they detect power on the loop out connector and either block it when powered on or pass it when they're in standby.

Since the Super manual is really for the Golden there isn't anything in it about the loop out feature. I really need this clarified so I don't hurt any of my receivers. Also, it'd be nice if the V7 can control the dish when she's not watching anything.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Like I said if you use a splitter, instead of the loop out, you can do all that with no problems, and control the dish.

The cable from the dish goes to the input on the splitter and the two outputs go one each to the V7 and V8.

I'll do some test and see if there are blockers in the Golden loop output..

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Ok

The Golden does not have a loop out so I used my Skybox F3s.
The V8 Golden was connected via the loop.

If the Golden was on a H channel the Skybox could not access a V channel.
The Golden (the slave unit) could not do DiSEqC switching.
The Golden could see and power the LNB with the Skybox powered off.

I would not recommend looping you sat units.
Use a splitter.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

Yankee495
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Feralkiwi wrote:Ok

The Golden does not have a loop out so I used my Skybox F3s.
The V8 Golden was connected via the loop.

If the Golden was on a H channel the Skybox could not access a V channel.
The Golden (the slave unit) could not do DiSEqC switching.
The Golden could see and power the LNB with the Skybox powered off.

I would not recommend looping you sat units.
Use a splitter.

Owen
Isn't this exactly how it's going to act if you use the loop out? So the Golden could power the LNB but not operate a Disque switch?

The V7 HD has "Select All" in "Satellite Installation" and you can use that to turn LNB power off for all sats.
But when you "Select All" satellites it will not change the Motor Setup option to "None" for all satellites.
I think it may be a bug.

It keeps popping up "Moving Dish" because I can't set the motor to "None" for all satellites.
It should allow you to "Select All" and change the Motor Type to "None".


When both receivers are on it's easy to turn the LNB power off on the V7 HD (slave) and I can live with the moving dish popup. It's also easy to tun the LNB power back on when you want to control the dish.

I guess I'll have to test the V8 Super Loop Out and see what happens. I would think it allows the second receiver to control the dish if the first receiver is powered off (in standby).

What I need to know from the admins is exactly how the V8 Super Loop Out functions.

Is it safe to have a second receiver with LNB Power ON connected to the V8 Super Loop Out?

Can a receiver connected to the V8 Super Loop Out control the dish if the Super is off (in standby)?

Yankee495
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Well Owen,

I didn't pay attention to LNB Power "Polarity Off" in the V8 Super menu and it does not have "Off".
It only has "Auto", "V" and "H".

I tested several options and when you do "Select All" none of them change on all satellites.
I guess "Select All" is for deleting all of them.

But over in "Installation" select "Search Setting" and there is "LNB Power" and there is an Off setting. There is no way to select other satellites so I think it means all LNB power is off completely. I think it's good to go!

I now have a V8 Super(#1) connected to the dish and dish mover,
and I have a second V8 Super(#2) connected to the Loop Out on Super #1.

So again, what I need to know from the admins is exactly how the V8 Super Loop Out functions.

Is it safe to have a second receiver with LNB Power ON connected to the V8 Super Loop Out?

Can a second receiver connected to the V8 Super Loop Out control the dish if the Super is off (in standby)?

Yankee495
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Here's what I've found when testing Loop Out. I'm using two V8 Supers and I copied the channel list from Super #1 to Super #2. You can control a dish with a receiver hooked up to loop out if you turn the LNB power off on the 1st Super. The second Super will move the dish, operate the DiSEqC switches and everything. I don't know if a V8 Super amplifies the Loop Out signal or switches anything, but I have a weak transponder and the second Super will only receive it if the first Super is turned on (but LNB power is still off). It appears like the Super amplifies the Loop Out signal or something. If anyone knows anything about Loop Out on the Super I'd sure appreciate any information you have.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Yankee495,
So if I'm reading this right...My V8super #1 right now is connected to my dish feeding the LNB 19volts dc and working well,so i don't touch anything else.

Today I ran a 40foot RG6 then connected it in back of the V8super #1 marked loop and...

when the second V8super #2 comes in (this week i hope), I will put that other #2 receiver in the other room and put that F connector into LNB on that receiver.But make shure that I turn off the LNB power in the Installation menu first?
If I read this correctly the admins are concerned that we might accidently turn the LNB power on both receivers frying them both.And that is why they suggest useing splitters.But there are so many splitters out there available I'm not really shure which ones are the right ones to buy locally.I dont want to wait another month for a shipment from alibabah for a 4 dollar splitter if the loop works fine.I plan on leaving both #1 and #2 on T5 Horiz all the time.If we accidently set the second receiver to a verticle channel as long as the LNB power is off nothing will happen unless the #2 receiver is built to start transmitting 19v of power if someone accidently goes to a vert transponder.Sooo I'm hoping LNB power "off" means OFF.

Secondly and unrelated to above is how are you guys using the V8super to move your dish? I had to keep my old 4DTV DSR922 to move my dish arm and my H/V polarity scuew if i need to go V or H I have to manually change the channel on my old receiver odd/even because there are no connections on the back of this V8S right?unless I'm missing something.BTW I'm using a 12foot paraclipse i put up in 1984 andf a coroter II with a von weise 24" arm
Ed

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

With you using only Horizontal (18v) any receiver that tries to use vertical (13v) will get no signal.
Another thing. Is your dish is using a universal LNB, one that has two parts, low frequency and high frequency.
If this is so you will have the LNB setting in the Antenna menu set to 9750-10600.
If you are using a universal LNB any receiver that selects a high band TP will have the 22KHz tone on and the other STBs will not get a low band frequency signal.
Not a problem if you are using a single LNB.

Regarding the dish mover.
I'm using a DiSEqC dish mover, a separate box in the cable to the dish.
Here;'s one here
This has power cables to the actuator on the dish and gets its instruction from the STB via DiSEqC 1.2.
Older STB's did have this built into the STB.

Have a look at the instructions I posted today.

If you take pictures of some of the splitters that you can find locally, we can look and tell you if they are the right ones for you.
If you are only using two STBs, using the loop is fine for you.

To have both STBs able to use both Vertical and Horizontal you would need a twin output LNB, one output for each STB.
You can get 4 output LNBs too, or use a 2x4 switch to connect more than two STBs to a two output LNB.
If you had a two output Universal LNB there would be no problem with the use of high and low bands from the other STBs.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Owen,

I found a Dish networks DP Plus seperator 0804 It has a DC and DiSEqCPASS on Sattelite in #1 and sattelite in #2 is blank at the TOP it says INPUT 950-2150Mhz then below the sat#1 and sat#2 have a picture of a dish on each one.Could I use that to be safe instead of the loop?( Bc I don't want to blow up anything)
Just to give you all the info What I am doing is the TV in my living room has the DSR922 dish positioner so I pulled out the lnb coax and put it into the V8super this is how i have it right now.I want to run a second V8Super in the other room so I ran a RG6 coax yesterday to the other room,so hopefully all I'll have to do when the new v8 comes in this week is to remove my current V8s,hook up the new one in its place then do a blind scan ,then try it out to make shure it works ,once that happens I think I should disable the lnb power in menu, then unplug it,then take it to the other room,insert the RG6 into LNB out on the new one the other end I beleive goes to loop on the back of the main v8s which has the lnb power out on by default.Is this right?

Ed

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

Yes that Dish networks DP Plus separator 0804 is the thing you need.
Here's one on Ebay
And one, a 904
Here's a two way "Splitter"Image

These are the same as the "Splitter" I have talked about. I have not found these called "separator" before. Same thing.
With the separator you can access vertical and horizontal from both STBs, BUT the STB that has Horizontal will win, and no harm will come to either STB.
These splitters / separator have diodes in them that stop DC power from going back through the splitter to the other STB.
If your are watching H in the lounge, the STB in the other room can only watch H as well and will get "No Signal" when tuned to any V channel.

I am still interested if you are using a "Universal" LNB?
This will have the LNB freq set to 9750-10600 or similar in the Antenna menu.
If you are then your two STB's will have to share the two bands of the Horizontal half of the LNB.
If one STB is tuned to a High band frequency then the other can not tune to a lower band frequency.
This will only happen if you have a universal LNB.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Thanks Owen:)
I just hooked up the splitter and everything works(On the single receiver,still waitng for the second one to come in)

.Now do I still have to turn OFF the LNB power on the second receiver or can I leave it alone putting out 18volts into the other side of the splitter?
BTW Thank you for your patience.
Ed

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

Yes, Leave the power on on the second receiver for a splitter.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Ok Thanks Owen. I'm just waiting for it to arrive.
The next thing will be a USB software upgrade for the sattellites in my part of the world.But I'm reading here that some of the guys are having problems with that.Have you felt comfortsble enough to do software upgrades on yours.
Ed

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

The V8 Super is one unit I don't have so I can not comment on that.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Owen,

The second receiver is here! But I am having to use the loop out to the new receiver and makeing shure I turn off the LNB power and it works.But it will not work with the splitter!What could I be doing wrong? My LNB is going to the top of the splitter the side with the DC pass is going to the V8S with the lnb power on the left side of the splitter is going to the other room and I get no signal at all.I turn the LNB power on that doesnt work I turn it on and that doesnt either.The Main V8s works all the time.Could the splitter be bad?
Ed

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

To prove the spiltter works connect your first unit through the splitter to your LNB.
If this works then that side of the splitter is good.
Then try the other side of the splitter.

Do the same with the new unit, connect it direct and through the splitter.
Check your cables for their connections to the "F" connectors.

You say " the side with the DC pass ". Both sides should have DC pass.

I have seen in the Freesat units that you can turn off the LNB power in one menu for ALL the satellites and in the Antenna menu for EACH satellite.
Check that you have the power on. Connecting the second newer unit direct will show you if this is the problem.

I'll be online again 12 hours form now and then again in about 18 hours.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Owen,

I went back to your picture of the splitter and noticed that your splitter has the DC pass on both sides.The one I have has a line indicating DC on the right side of the splitter only.I think that my splitter might be the problem but why the heck would they make a splitter pass on only one side?
.I'll have to find a splitter like the one you pictured.I went on ebay looking for the splitter like you have pictured above but so far I've found no listing.Thank you
Ed

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Owen,
I just ordered this item number on ebay 330982474327 for $3 dollars I think it's the right one bc it passes DC on both sides like the one you have pictured here.
Ed

Yankee495
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Yankee495 »

Ed,

That one only goes to 2050 MHz and you should go a little higher to 2150. Mine are 2400 MHz but I'm not using them.

Again, you can run the V8 Super Loop Out to a second receiver with no splitter at all.
My Super works great and I can turn control over to the other receiver by turning off the LNB power for receiver #1 and then turning on the LNB power on receiver #2.

Here is some info on splitters.

http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthrea ... or-the-job!

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Feralkiwi
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi Ed

As Yankee495 said that splitter on ebay does look to be a little low in its high frequency end. 2400 is better. at 2050 you may find it stops some of the higher frequencies of Ku band form being received or some of the lower Frequencies of C band from being received.

Splitters with one side not DC pass are used to split out UHF terrestrial TV signal from the same cable.
These splitters often have the frequency on that port set to a lower frequency to block out the satellite signal going to the TV.

Even with no DC pass your second unit should have received the signals that the first unit was looking at,
BUT if it has lower freq on that port it would not.
Did your second unit work when direct connected to the LNB?

As Yankee495 says you can use the loop out and not the splitter.
With the splitter the second unit will still work when the other unit is powered off.
With a splitter the second unit can take over the LNB and watch H polarity, blocking the first unit watching V and visa versa.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Yankee 495
The loop works well for right now,but you know Murphys law:) I will try the 3$ one It should get here in 4 days. I will try to find one rated for 2400Mhz.

Thank you,
Ed

ed123
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Re: V8 Super Loop Out Questions

Post by ed123 »

Hi Owen,

I think he splitter must be bad on the left side or like you mentioned it was probably for terrestrial VHF/uhf (but it's not marked for that) It worked great on the DC pass side.I will find one rated for 5/2400 mhz.the 2050 mhz is in New york so it will get here in 3-4 days

I can't wait to try one of these V8s on my 5foot c band spun aluminum portable dish next summer

Thank you,
Ed

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