Building Network For Sat2IP

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Yankee495
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Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

First I have a question for Owen and Freesat. Is it possible to have more than one SAT2IP client viewing a V8 stream at the same time?
Can two devices view the SAT2IP stream from the V8 Super at the same time?

For others who want to know how to do SAT2IP right this is how I setup my home network. You can do it with cheaper equipment but I got a deal on an enterprise grade layer 3 switch and set it up right. Owen, if you have any tips I'd be glad to hear them.

I used an HP 5120 EI 48-port PoE Gigabit Layer 3 switch and a Mikrotik RB750 router. I added a Cisco Aironet 3502I AIR-CAP3502I-A-K9 IEEE 802.11n 300 Mbps Wireless Access Point running in autonomous mode for wireless N connectivity. Here is how it's all set up.

The HP Switch has 3 Sub-net based VLANs defined as follows.

VLAN 1 is 192.168.10.0/24 on ports 1-16 and is used to connect the computers. The wifi access point is PoE powered on port 16.
VLAN 2 is 192.168.20.0/24 on ports 17-32 and is used for the V8 Supers, two of them so far. They are plugged in.
VLAN 3 is 192.168.30.0/24 on ports 33-48 and is used for VOIP.

The Mikrotik RB750 has a WAN port and 4 Ethernet ports. It provides DHCP servers for VLANs 1-3 which are setup for inter-vlan communication. These are stand alone IP networks meaning if the internet goes down the internal networks still function. The main router with the internet is plugged into the WAN port and the other ports are as follows:

Port 2 is the trunk port for VLAN 1 on HP port 1.
Port 3 is the trunk port for VLAN 2 on HP port 17.
Port 4 is the trunk port for VLAN 3 on HP port 33.

With this set up I can stream a 20 Megabit HD video from the V8 without any problems. I can stream a 20 Megabit HD video from both V8s without any problems. Since the switch is handling the video streams it doesn't pass though the main router and eat up all of the network speed causing video skipping and a slow internet. I can stream 20 Megabits from each V8 and still have my full internet speed available because the HP switch handles the stream routing. These are Gigabit networks so the V8 streams are only a small fraction of the bandwidth.

This set up flat rocks and I couldn't be happier with it! Basically I have a network of my own to handle the video streams and then I gave the network internet access. I had been planing to expand my internal network and the V8s just gave me a reason to do it. Now that it's all set up it's as simple as plugging in new devices or computers but let me tell you, I had to learn a lot. I didn't know a thing about how to set the HP switch up and the Mikrotik router is very advanced with tons of configuration options. It took a while to learn how it worked but in the need I go it all working together and it runs beautifully!

The manual for the HP switch is 1,400+ pages and the Cisco AP manual is 500+ pages. There is an online manual for the Mikrotik but it's hard to piece together just exactly how to set it up because of language differences and lack of examples. This was a lot of work and took a lot of reading and learning but it was worth it in the end. I can stream from and record the V8s directly to the hard drives on any computer. This is what I wanted and I still have some work to do such as re-configuring my firmware upgrade/channel list servers etc. I ended up with HTTP, TFTP and FTP servers running on this thing.

All I need to know is if there is a way to make the SAT2IP stream available to more than one viewer (client) at a time. I have the network for it and a computer with whatever server is necessary. I'd rather make it available directly from the V8 by changing the viewer mode etc and not using the computer to resend the stream. I'm using VLC and it makes the dish move when changing channels, I guess you'd say it's the master client. Is there are way to make other clients just view the stream and not control the dish, and have more than one viewer at a time?

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Feralkiwi
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Feralkiwi »

Sadly you are asking the wrong person.
I have done little with the network side of these V8's.
I had hoped to follow you advise on sat2IP.
Computers annoy me. I'm lucky if I can get them to stop doing their own thing and let ME use the net.
I found out that the IP camera function in the older V8 Pro only allowed one camera and needed the net connected to start, but not there after.
A pity as I had hoped to have a IP camera network that I could see from the TV with the STB remote and one that worked with out the external net.

Good luck

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

I got a deal on that HP switch but you can use a second router to make a subnet that your V8s run on so they don't pass the stream though your main router. Plug the WAN port of a second wireless router into a LAN port on your main router. Then connect your V8s to the second router, wirelessly or wired, and its processor will handle all of the load and bandwidth freeing up your main router. That should give you great SAT2IP video streaming and you'll have your full internet speed available with all of the CPU power available to process it on the main router.

In my case the SAT2IP stream was taking up all of the horse power and bandwidth of my main router so I moved the V8s to a different network. The second router just bridges the internet to the internal subnets so the V8s have internet available to them. Before, my wife's internet was slow, super slow when I was streaming from the V8 and now she has all of the internet to herself even if I an streaming from the V8. It worked out really good.

nanerson
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by nanerson »

Hi,

I think you'll need a server that can handle connections from SAT2IP and send them to clients. I was searching for a software that can handle this but cant find.

About your question to watch multiple channels on same box, i think its not possible. maybe you can watch different channels at once with is on in the same transponder because LNB IN from v8 super is simple and can handle only 1 transponder at time.

One question: your SAT2IP is working well in your setup? what firmware version do you use? i have a lot of troubles to get it work well at home.

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

Yes, it's working good and I'm using the 9-30-2016 firmware.

The V8 has a SAT2IP server built into it. But VLC, the program I am using to watch it takes total control and the dish will even move to the sat the channel is on. I'm assuming there is a way to just watch the stream without taking control of the receiver. I guess I should go study the SAT2IP protocol.

The stream does contain more than one channel if there is more than one channel on the transponder. In VLC you can right click the channel and click Information then go to the CODECS tab (I think but it is one of the tabs) and it will show all of the stream info including video and audio tracks. If you record it you can select which video and audio stream to play. Using a video editor you can separate the streams and export them.


What kind of problems are you having? Speed is the biggest issue I had, it just wouldn't provide a stable stream. Now that I have the speed it's flawless as long as they are not encrypted streams. Encrypted streams lock it up etc. I scanned a whole satellite and forgot to set it to FTA only and when I clicked one of the encrypted streams I lost control of it and it eventually locked up and I had to unplug it. That may or may not be a bug but as long as you only play FTA streams it works.

Also, a 1920x1080 video stream is not 20 Megabits but there is more than one video/audio stream contained in the main stream. This is why you need more speed, you're receiving more than one channel at a time. I'll post a screen shot of the streams.

nanerson
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by nanerson »

Yankee495 wrote:Yes, it's working good and I'm using the 9-30-2016 firmware.

The V8 has a SAT2IP server built into it. But VLC, the program I am using to watch it takes total control and the dish will even move to the sat the channel is on. I'm assuming there is a way to just watch the stream without taking control of the receiver. I guess I should go study the SAT2IP protocol.

The stream does contain more than one channel if there is more than one channel on the transponder. In VLC you can right click the channel and click Information then go to the CODECS tab (I think but it is one of the tabs) and it will show all of the stream info including video and audio tracks. If you record it you can select which video and audio stream to play. Using a video editor you can separate the streams and export them.
Yes, exactaly, Sorry i didnt understand well when you asked.

I dont know if STB will support this. maybe a hardware limit. if you learn a way please let us know :D


About my SAT2IP problems:

I think its a "Network Discover" from windows is crashing SAT2IP. when i turn on box and turn on sat2ip, try to find my STB on VLC player and sometimes i can see, sometimes not.

Sometimes i can play a channel but freezes after some minutes (randomsly).

In another topic there is a workaround for this problem. the only way to get work is turn on "LCM" function in Sattelite options and turn off "Network Discover" on Windows.

NOTE: When my box come, with stock firmware i didnt have this problem. i didnt try with the latest firmware yet because i've said there is some peoples repporting ramdomsly freezes of STB...

nanerson
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by nanerson »

OFF:

Trying to find a software that can acts like a relay of SAT2IP server. My idea is the Software connects with STB with SAT2IP protocol and enconde audio/video (on the fly) to another file format (bitrates, codec, etc).

I think its the best way to share SAT2IP over internet because uPNP cant work.

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

nanerson wrote:
Yes, exactaly, Sorry i didnt understand well when you asked.

I dont know if STB will support this. maybe a hardware limit. if you learn a way please let us know :D


About my SAT2IP problems:

I think its a "Network Discover" from windows is crashing SAT2IP. when i turn on box and turn on sat2ip, try to find my STB on VLC player and sometimes i can see, sometimes not.

Sometimes i can play a channel but freezes after some minutes (randomsly).

In another topic there is a workaround for this problem. the only way to get work is turn on "LCM" function in Sattelite options and turn off "Network Discover" on Windows.

NOTE: When my box come, with stock firmware i didnt have this problem. i didnt try with the latest firmware yet because i've said there is some peoples repporting ramdomsly freezes of STB...
I haven't used Windows in years, I'm running Linux. VLC SAT2IP functionality is iffy at best. I'm using VLC version 2.2.4 for Linux. For others using Linux you must install the UPnP package for VLC.

Do you mean LCN (Logical Channel Number)? I haven't tried changing that but I do not have it on. I used to have a problem getting the channel list from the V8 but now it seems to work every time. I don't know if the firmware update fixed it or if it's something I changed in the computer. I do know your firewall can block it but if you're getting it sometimes I don't think it's your firewall.

If I were you I'd try a newer firmware. Go here and get 18/09/2016 V8_Super_V388.rar

http://freesat.cn/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10

I have seen the reports of problems with the firmware I am using but I haven't had any problems that I think are related to the new FW. Before I got this network all set up I had so many problems it was hard to tell where the problems were. It took a long time to get a channel list and it used all of my bandwidth making my internet slow and the video skipped etc.

99% of my problems were network speed related. How is your V8 connected and what's your network layout, router etc?

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

nanerson wrote:OFF:

Trying to find a software that can acts like a relay of SAT2IP server. My idea is the Software connects with STB with SAT2IP protocol and enconde audio/video (on the fly) to another file format (bitrates, codec, etc).

I think its the best way to share SAT2IP over internet because uPNP cant work.
You are talking about "Transcoding". VLC will do it. It can receive the stream from the V8 and tanscode it to a different format or smaller size and stream it back out to your network or even the internet. You need to read about that to learn how to set it up and you need a lot of bandwidth because you'll need enough to receive and send it. Also, your computer must have enough horse power to transcode it "on the fly" meaning it will have to be able to transcode it fast enough to keep up with the stream or you'll have video breakup on your out going stream.

This is where you set it up.
abcnews-21mbit-stream.jpg
abcnews-21mbit-stream.jpg (113.41 KiB) Viewed 9659 times

nanerson
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by nanerson »

Wow, thanks for information. will do some tests with transcoding over VLC. I Think my computer can handle with this (i7 2600 with 16gb ram).

My network layout:

have a gigabit switch, the main switch. there is connection from my windows PC, my internet and another to my Access Point.
My access point acts in bridge (LAN > WIFI). So my STB is connected to this AP (B/G/N) who is connected in my switch over lan port (megabit speed).

So my route to the STB from my pc is: Windows PC to Switch (GIGABIT) >> Switch to AP (Megabit) >> WIFI to STB. The only slow speed i can get is from AP <> STB.

Did you use your STB over WIFI or Ethernet? didnt try to use by ethernet yet but i dont think the most problem i have with SAT2IP is my AP <> STB because i had best results with stock firmware.

This is the topic i was opened with this problem:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=473

I had best results with "Network Discover" option from Windows 10 as said in topic but not always works. when i didnt get it work, need to turn off/on box and try again.

thanks for your attention!!!!

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

Great, your network is set up good. I have a wireless N access point too but have not tried it since I upgraded my network.
I am using it wired right now but let me see how it works on the wifi. I'll look at my AP settings too, there may be settings in there that need turned on for Multicast. You may check yours and see if Multicast is enabled or if there are any other settings for it.

I did have problems playing SAT2IP on my Android phone but again, I have not tried it since I upgraded my network. I thought it was just a bug in the Android App, not sure, but it just wouldn't work before. Let me test it on WiFi and on the phone and I'll post how it works.

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

Ok, I connected the V8 by wifi to my Cisco AP, it's wireless N and I used the 2.4 GHz radio. I could not find the connection speed because I am just learning Cisco IOS. I don't think it has any throttling going on, but again, I'll have to look up and learn how to check. According to the Web Interface there isn't but I couldn't find the client connection speeds though the web UI. I am sure if I telnet into it there are commands to get much more detailed information.

I couldn't get it to do a stable 4.2 Megabit stream to the computer or the phone and the phone did show that it was connected at 72 Mbits. I will have to check the specifications on the USB wifi stick I am using on the V8. Also, when I hit MUTE 888 to bring up the network settings on the V8 it froze and I couldn't exit that. I had to cycle the power to get control of it. It does seem I had a lot of problems when connecting the V8 to the network by wifi.

I then connected the V8 directly to the network by Ethernet cable. I can stream 8 Megabit HD to the phone without any problems. The phone shows that it is connected at 72 Mbits and I'm using VLC. It is having an occasional video/audio skip but it's watchable. I'll have to check if there is anything I can do about that. It could be my location in relation to the AP which is 2 rooms away but I seem to have a good signal.

I read your other thread and I too need to get wifi going stable. I want to be able to watch satellite TV in the back yard at the table and in other rooms that do not have televisions. I have not configured any QOS at all so I may be able to do something to improve the stream by giving it a higher priority. I have to go for a while but I will do some more testing. I'm going to keep the V8 plugged in and see what I can do with QOS or something to get a stable wifi stream to the phone.

It's not bad now but I want it to be 100% stable at all times as long as I have good signal. That should be possible for both of us with the network configurations we have. At this point I do recommend attaching your V8 directly to the network by Ethernet cable. This gives me a very good stable stream to the PC and the V8 doesn't freeze up. I'll have to work on the wifi client configuration in the Cisco AP.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Feralkiwi »

Hi

I have tried again to use Sat2IP
My old XP PC would not open the UPNP, like it was not there in the software. Others comment the same.
I tried VLC on my freinds PC and it worked. XP looks to be the problem, or lack of other service packs.

I then loaded VLC-Android-2.0.6-ARMv7.apk into my Alien A3 android STB and it works.
It crashes if I go to an HD channel and a lot of other times too.

The big news is that If I choose a SD channel I could watch a powervu channel via Sat2IP.
The trick was to first goto a FTA SD channel. This changed the V8's channel and the V8 also displays this SD channel and leaves the sat2IP menu screen.
Sometimes I had to click on the same channel twice on the list to get it on the android.
This maybe due to my cascade DiSEqC switching taking time to change.
Once I had a SD channel working I changed to a SD powervu channel and again sometime click on it twice and it works.
I could watch DSC China off Isat 19C.

A message came up on the andriod screen "Hardware acceleration problem, switching to software decode", I think, as it blinks off quickly.
The A3 does not have powervu decoding in it.
Was this VLC doing the decoding? or was the V8 sending the decoded video?

I'm using an old internet modem as a switch and once setup I could unplug the outside internet connection and still watch.

The V8 STB shows the channel chosen via Sat2IP, you can then change channel to another channel via Sat2IP on the same TP and the V8 screen stays on the former channel. You are then watching one channel on the V8 and a different channel on the Sat2IP, both on the same TP.

The V8 Golden crashed a LOT doing this.

And lastly for those from Auzzy and NZ.
The Auzzy channel 9 Mux (12570 V 20106 Isat19C@166e) did not display any better through Sat2IP than it does direct off the V8 STB.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Feralkiwi »

I have now also had BISS channels feed through sat2ip as well. The codes for them are definitely in the V8 STB.
I'm still having a lot of crashes and I need to go to a scrambled channel from a FTA channel.
I changed to a plain network switch after the Telecom NZ modem I was using as a switch added multiple shared folders on to the active house server / modem and locked out the house internet.

Still not getting HD channels through the sat2ip. I can just see the start of one hd channel and then it stops.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

Yankee495
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Yankee495 »

There seems to be some confusion about staying in the SAT2IP menu, you do not have to stay in it. And yes, the TV will stay on one channel while the computer views another, if they are on the same TP. I have V8 crashes if I use wifi with the newest FW and I had a little trouble with the older FW but I didn't use SAT2IP much because my network couldn't handle it.

It absolutely has the potential to be one of my favorite features, in fact it already is. I'll work with it some more and I may try to go back one FW, I do have the RS-232 cable and know how. I don't remember it having this much trouble when using wifi. Still, the best is to have it plugged into a switch on a different subnet so it has plenty of bandwidth.

Oh, unplugging your internet worked because you already had an IP address or your switch is providing a DHCP server. If you can't get it going without the internet connected then your modem is providing the IP and you won't be able to get it going without it. If you have a switch with an internal DHCP server you can have a standalone IP network with no internet access. This would be useful for people who want to use SAT2IP but do not have internet. Also, there is a thing called an Ad hoc network. To set that up you use static IP addresses on the same subnet and you don't need a DHCP server or the internet, just a connection between the two devices using a simple unmanaged switch or hub.

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Feralkiwi
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Re: Building Network For Sat2IP

Post by Feralkiwi »

Thanks Yanke495

I will look at internal DHCP server. I brought the Freesat IP cameras to go with my V8 Combo in hope of using them when traveling, off net.
I found that I had to have the net connected and that you can only use ONE IP camera at a time with the V8 Combo / Pro's.

Thanks, a lot to learn for networks.

Owen
Dishes; 3x3m, 2.4m and 4.1m, 10+ ku, 2 movers, USARLS. V8 Combo, Pro, V8 Golden, Nova V8Pro2, GTC, Super.V7HDs, Combo and V7s V7Plus Finder, Finder-Meter V8X / UHD V7Pro GT/XCombo. Sats 100.5E to 177W. I'm a Sat hobbyist who helps out.

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